When I shared this quote on Facebook, one person agreed that “Punishment should not be used because a child has a problem,” but then asked “What about knowing, deliberate disobedience?”
My short answer to the question – Should deliberate disobeyers be punished? – is No, deliberate disobeyers need a problem-solving response, instead of a punishment, as much or more than accidental disobeyers.
Liam and Pearl
My long answer goes on to explore the power in problem-solving and the damage that results from punishment. To that end, here are –
Five Things to Keep in Mind when
Working with the Deliberately Disobedient
1ne – Value the Relationship
Positive change is built on a positive relationship. There is just no way around this. Throughout this blog I keep coming back to this point because it is difficult to overstate it’s importance. The more frustrating or difficult the problem behavior becomes, the more a positive relationship is needed. In other words, if a kid is deliberately disobeying there is more at play here than that moment of defiance. A positive relationship fosters trust within the kid, as well as fostering compassion within the parent or teacher. Trust and compassion are good things when it comes to problem-solving.
Brothers (2014)
2wo – Strengthen the Will, Don’t Break It
It is uncomfortable and frustrating to the parent or teacher who is working with a child who seems to knowingly disobey, but give the kid credit for having some kind of inner strength to do things his way, even in the face of potential trouble. Hear me clearly, I am not defending disobedience or trying to downplay it as no big deal. Disobedience needs to be confronted and children need to learn how to fix what they have broken, but how we go about this makes all the difference. Too often our actions seem to focus on breaking the will of the child, dominating him or threatening him into obedience, rather than helping the child become the master of his own will and decision-making ability.
3hree – Unplug the Power Struggle
When a kid disobeys it can be viewed as a direct assault on adult supremacy. Viewing obedience vs. disobedience issues through this lens creates a power struggle that always leads to the adult and the child being adversaries with very different goals and a bad relationship to boot. On top of this, the focus is now on the power struggle, rather than on the behavior that needs to be addressed.
Look at the camera, Charlie.
4our – Models Matter
A simple, but powerful truth is that – We must BE what we want our children to BECOME. If we want our children and students to be good listeners and good communicators who are able to say what they want in a way that keeps them connected to others, then we need to show them what that looks like. If we want them to be reasonable and self-controlled, even when things don’t go their way, then we need to show them how that works. The goal is self-government. Problem-solving is meant to help kids monitor their own thinking and feelings and to learn to effectively govern their own behavior.
5ive – Developmental Smarts
Child behavior, including teenager behavior, has more to do with developmental maturity than it does with deliberate rebellion. Keeping developmental factors in mind can make all the difference.
For Instance
Developmentally Challenged
Parents of a three year old are frustrated at him for being fussy and crying, thus preventing them from spending time with other families as an afternoon get-together stretches into the evening. At one point they even grab him firmly and tell him he better straighten up or they will give him something to cry about.
Developmentally Smart
Parents of a three year old would love to stay and visit longer with friends, but they recognize that his naptime was affected earlier and that it has been a long day for him. No resentment. This three year old needs to get home and ready for bed.
It’s not Pismo, but it’s close.
Developmentally Challenged
Parents of a five year old chastise him in a frustrated tone when he gets his Lego train stuff out to play, since it makes the house feel messy. “Can’t we just have the house look nice for a while?” they ask.
Developmentally Smart
Parents of a five year old set aside a play area for Legos and whatever else he wants to do. They talk with him about putting things away before getting a lot of other stuff out to play with, but it is rarely in a frustrated or angry tone. “This is now his house, too,” they realize, “and we shouldn’t make a federal case out of him wanting to act his age.”
Developmentally Challenged
A middle school teacher is sick of his students talking so much during class and decides to threaten and punish those who don’t obey his ‘be quiet’ directive.
Developmentally Smart
A middle school teacher is frustrated that his students talk so much during class, but recognizes the adolescent drive in them to communicate with each other. Rather than try to stop this powerful force in them, he decides to harness their talking energy and increase their learning at the same time. To this end, his in-class assignments often have partners or small groups discussing topics and completing tasks together. They still get to talk, they understand the topic better, and he doesn’t have to become a punishment ogre.
True, even when we try to be developmentally-smart, children will still test their independence and boundaries we create. The question, though, isn’t on whether or not we should confront the behavior and expect better. The answer to that question is always YES. The question is more about How do we confront the behavior and help the child to want to do better in a way that doesn’t harm our relationship? The answer to that question lies in problem-solving, not punishing.
=======================
Problem-solving
The process by which a child or student is confronted due to inappropriate or unacceptable behavior and is assisted toward making amends and creating a plan for better behavior in the future. At the core of problem-solving is the desire to help another person effectively self-evaluate.
Punishment
Pain or discomfort that is applied to a child or student who misbehaves, especially a student who is believed to have deliberately disobeyed, in the belief that the pain will prevent future misbehavior.
The Better Plan . . 
Interesting perspective, but your examples dealt only with typical human behavior, not deliberate disobedience. How about this: a twelve year old takes a can of spray pain and sprays a white line down the side of his blue house, Very calmly the parents show him why this is not right, and have him help them clean and repaint the house. One week later he does the same thing. What now?
Interesting perspective, but your examples dealt only with typical human behavior, not deliberate disobedience. How about this: a twelve year old takes a can of spray paint and sprays a white line down the side of his blue house, Very calmly the parents show him why this is not right, and have him help them clean and repaint the house. One week later he does the same thing. What now?
I guess you and I define “typical human behavior” and “deliberate disobedience” differently. To me, deliberate disobedience is typical human behavior. What disobedience isn’t deliberate?
But let’s look at the scenario you describe. How can we or should we view this type of behavior?
Either this kid is very angry or he is a sociopath.
If he is angry there is a high probability that his being controlled and punished in the past is what led to this “lashing out” behavior. Spray-painting the side of a house is vandalism, but it also carries with it a desire to be heard, to be understood. The kid needs to “fix” what he did as a natural consequence, however punishing him will not help and will very likely worsen the situation and lead to more vandalism. Again, the kid needs to be held accountable for what he did, but it has to be in concert with effective problem-solving. The reasons for the behavior have to be understood.
If he is a sociopath then the future indeed looks bleak for him and those who love him. I am not an expert on sociopaths, but I understand that a sociopath is someone who has no need whatsoever of connection with another human being. A kid who kid spray paint the side of a house, be helped by patient adults to fix the problem, only to re-do the vandalism the following week definitely has a deep anger and lack of connection issue. This scenario is extreme.
—————-
Just some additional thoughts –
My toddler nephew discovered a role of postage stamps and proceeded to stick them to the beautifully wall-papered wall of his grandparent’s home office. Toddlers are fascinated with stamps of all kinds and he thought what he was doing would improve the look of the wall. A 12 year old, though, knows what he is doing when it comes to spray painting houses.
My feeling is that if a 12 year old spray paints a house, it’s vandalism, probably in response to past punishments and efforts by adults to control him. Upon catching a spray-painting vandal in the act, will punishment prevent such behavior in the future? My thinking is that it won’t.
The kid you describe is angry and disconnected to the important people in his life, a condition that won’t be helped by punishment. It may be that he has a future as a tagger, which taps into a complex tapestry of the basic human needs. I became friends with a tagger from Oakland, who became a Christian and entered the Theology program at PUC. What an incredible story! I had him come to my multicultural education class as a guest speaker. It was such a wonderfully unique class period to hear him talk about what motivates taggers and the community that is formed among the taggers and the language that they draw and paint around the city. Taggers are motivated through multiple combinations of the basic needs. For instance they meet the basic need of –
+ Purpose when they search for and capture in their graphics the angst of the oppressed and the meaning of life.
+ Love and Belonging when they experience the comraderie of the tagger community, as well as when they are valued in the wider community for their insights and their acts of daring.
+ Power as they proclaim (their views of) truth through their painting, and as they paint in places that are against the law to do so, especially places that involve physical danger.
+ Freedom when they do what they want to do, when they want to do it, where they want to do.
+ Fun when they do something they enjoy doing with people they enjoy doing it with.
=================
Here’s to enjoying the dialogue.
A lot of wisdom here Jim. Thank you. Started me thinking about how inextricably linked wisdom and patience are.
Also, about how so much of religion is built on power and force. How has the view of a God that eventually looses patience with those who continue to deliberately disobey and is forced (as if that were his only option) to destroy them twisted our thinking?
How we relate to one another, including how parents relate to their children and how teachers relate to their students, is ultimately linked to our perceptions of how God feels about us and about how He relates to us. I continue to be fascinated by the possibility that we try to create God in our image, rather than letting Him transform us into His. As we come to rely on force to feel better and attempt to get what we want, we come to see God in the same light. Good phrase as this kind of view really has “twisted our thinking.”
Clearly a lot of wisdom and some wonderful photos as well!
Thank you for responding. The little guys in the pictures have been worked with, confronted at times, directed, requested, negotiated with, asked to obey, helped to get through a meltdown, loved on, told to straighten up, and given time outs on occasion, etc., but I don’t think they have ever been punished (at least according to my definition of punishment). I can’t imagine punishing them.
Thanks Jim,
“Child behavior, including teenager behavior, has more to do with developmental maturity than it does with deliberate rebellion” No question about this, I’m just wondering why you left out adults?
I do appreciate your clear well illustrated message.
thanks
glenn
Good to hear from you, Glenn. I agree with you that adults are affected by the same dynamics as kids when it comes to behavior and motivation. If punishment worked our prisons would be mostly empty.
I love the quote at the beginning and have posted it on Facebook as well. It struck me (and strikes me often as I think about Choice Theory) that modeling relationship above obedience and control is also modeling a God of love, freedom, grace, etc. – and nothing is more important to me as a parent and as a teacher than modeling God. I’m not saying I’m great at it, I’m just saying I’m always trying!
Well said. Thank you for writing out your thoughts and sharing them with us. Obedience is a word that means different things to different people. It’s meaning seems to be highly influenced by our prior thinking and the level of our need to control. Recognizing that God does not desire to control us, indeed that He created us with free will, the ability to choose our thinking and our actions. Words like freedom and grace are incredibly special. We just can’t lose sight of them. For our own sake and for the sake of our young people.
Hm..
I like many of the ideas put forth, but can’t help think some of the approach simply involves acquiescing or lowering the bar to avoid confrontation. We’ve spoken about this before, but I have reservations about the completely “child-centered” approach I see many young parents engaged in, in that it seems (from my view) to be creating a generation of spoiled kids that seem to be running the show.
An honest question I have is this. As young adults, were previous generations stronger, more capable, and less whiny? My suspicion is the answer is yes, but why? Where does the entitlement (of today’s youth) come from? Is there a chance that some kids in this modern era need(ed) more control? Certainly not in an angry or aggressive way, but simply to be told at times of conflict “I understand this isn’t what you want right now but you’re not running the show, I am.”
While this may create momentary resentment in the child, it at least prepares them for the fact that there are other interests in the world besides their own, and that they can’t manipulate a situation to get what they want, but rather have to adapt themselves?
I think every generation sees itself as stronger and less whiny than newer generations that follow them. (“I had to walk uphill, in the snow, to school every day.”) We want younger generations prepared to become responsible members of society, and yet some look at their behavior and feel so hopeless in that regard. A number of things need to be kept in mind at this point.
1) Adults do well as they recognize that their expectations (their quality world mental pictures) come from a place that is very personal to them and that these pictures may not be relevant to others, or even the best for society. This doesn’t mean we disregard our pictures; it just means we don’t become fixated on them to the exclusion of being open to new or different pictures. People can have very strong and specific expectations when it comes to how children should behave and about how parents should raise their children.
2) Adults with strong, specific pictures when it comes to child behavior often resort to reward/punishment tactics to force (coerce) them to behave in a certain way. These punishment tactics unfortunately involve threats, intimidation, anger, disgust, guilt, and physical violence. Adults leery or afraid of a forceful approach sometimes go the opposite direction, which seems to have no expectations and no real guidance. This approach seems to be what you are frustrated with, an approach which you incorrectly, I think, label as child-centered.
3) For me, choice theory strategies fall in between the two extremes, maybe taking the best of both options and weaving them into something better. Maybe choice theory takes the structure associated with coercive approaches and mixes it with the love, relationships, and gentle guidance associated with “child-centered” approaches. Structure and reasonable expectations are important; children do need to learn how to be respectful and polite and cooperative and kind and patient and thoughtful. They become these traits, though, as a loving adult gently, and at times, firmly guides them, all the while modeling these very traits themselves. This is challenge: we must be what we want children to become.
I do agree strongly with you that children must be prepared to acknowledge the interests of others in the world and that they must learn to adapt to these multiple interests. We do children no favors if we “protect” them against having to adapt.
Thank you, well said..